Topics: Science and Evolution

• Creationism deserves equal time
• Evolutionists themselves admit they have no proof
• Evolutionists themselves have admitted to flaws in their argument.
• Some scientists don't agree
• Evolution isn't a science
• Rift between mathematicians & biologists
• The doctrine of evolution is atheistic and therefore immoral.
• Competition for survival implies "strife, hatred, war, and death."
• Many evil social doctrines it has spawned.

But a theory in the scientific sense of the word, meaning that it explains a wide range of phenomena and that there's lots of data to back it up. Creationism, on the other hand, isn't even a theory; it's an assertion. "Equal time" in what? In schools in general, or in science classes? Science classes are suppose to teach science. There are two criteria for this:

1. It must be falsifiable i.e. there must be some way to show that the theory is incorrect. The theory must be testable. Evolution is, in that there can be things specified which, if they can be verified, would disprove evolution. Creationism allows no such test.
2. It must be able to make predictions i.e. it must be able to tell you how something WILL occur (and then you must be able to verify the accuracy of the prediction). The theories which compose evolution are useful in this regard in that they have made predictions concerning population densities, physiologies, chemistries, fossil find forecasts,... Creationism does none of this. At best, its "predictions" are either in the past (already happened) or unverifiable.

As a BTW: A Creationist posting was made on talk.religion.christian, (a moderated group) but no rebuttal was allowed from any evolutionist.

That is because science doesn't "prove": it shows possibilities and disproves things and makes predictions. Science doesn't deal in proof. It deals in evidence. Evolution has LOTS of evidence.

Isn't it nice to have a system that you can criticize and test? The only system which has no flaws is one in which those flaws are either defined away or ignored. We call this dogma. The presence of these flaws reveils the presence of active investigation into the limits. We call this "science".

Then the same argument disproves Creationism, too, since many (most?) theologians don't agree with it.

What else has 100% concurrence? Gravity is not 100% concurred with, either.

Buy you can observe the RESULTS of things that happened millions of years ago. And then, by using basic scientific knowledge, extrapolate back. And by observing trends within the period you can derive general rules which may then be used for predictions into the future. Just the historical observation is not evolution.

Here's an interesting story... (I think)... In 1967, a few mathematicians and biologists were chatting over a picnic lunch organized by Victor Weisskopf, prof. of physics at MIT. A "weird" discussion took place as the conversation turned to the subject of evolution by natural selection. The mathematicians were stunned by the optimism of the evolutionists about what could be achieved by chance. The wide rift between the participants led them to organize a conference on "Mathematical Challenges to the Neo-Darwinian Theory of Evolution"...(skip to the conference)... which opened with a paper by Murray Eden, Prof. of Electrical Engineering at MIT, entitled "The Inadequacy of Neo-Darwinian Evolution as a Scientific Theory". Eden showed that if it required a mere six mutations to bring about an adaptive change, this would occur by chance only once in a billion years --while, if two dozen genes were involved, it would require 10,000,000,000 years, which is much longer than the age of the earth. (See Gordon R. Taylor's "The Great Evolution Mystery"). "Since evolution does occur and has occurred, something more than chance mutation must be involved. Von Neumann & complexity

It's hard to see how the described "wide rift" between biologists and mathematicians could exist, since most of the population geneticists I know are mathematicians--like my thesis advisor, a PhD in Statistics. Population genetics is an intrinsically mathematical subject, as my students found with great dismay about 2 weeks into the course I TA'ed on the subject.....

I get a little angry when people seem to be implying that evolution is casually refutable and was refuted (by a professor of electrical engineering?) decades ago. Do they really think that two decades of bright, dedicated biologists would stick to a theory that this kind of argument could refute?

Adaptive change by mutation has been shown in the laboratory and is not in question. It is quite easy to demonstrate in bacteria, and advantageous forms which were generated by the co-occurrence of multiple mutations are quite possible. Three points are usually being missed by people who make Prof. Eden's mistake:

1. Disadvantageous forms can persist in the population for a long time;
2. Multiple ways to the same end (multiple mutations giving the same result) are not only possible but common;
3. Intermediate steps often have an inobvious advantage in themselves, making them targets of natural selection.

All I can figure is that the model assumes a population of a single homozygous individual whose progeny never exchange any genetic material and in which the mutated genes never recombine by crossover during mitosis. In other words, sort of like analyzing the aerodynamics of racehorses by assuming a spherical horse

Sounds like he's talking about six simultaneous mutations, which may very well be statistically phenomenal. Not required they be simultaneous by evolution however, and once one mutation is replicating throughout a group of related organisms, the odds then go up that one of them might develop another significant mutation in addition to the one they are now carrying.

Unlike creationism, evolution doesn't require the acceptance or rejection of any religion. In fact, many theists believe in evolution. The doctrine that atheism is immoral is bigotry, and therefore immoral. Competition doesn't imply hatred or war.

The Soviets did have a problem along these lines. Lysenko in particular disbelieved in natural selection for these reasons. He got charge of the Soviet Union's grain production. Their agricultural industry has almost recovered...

What?!?! Talk about irrelevant mud-slinging!!!

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