Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District

THE COURT: Be seated, please. Good morning to all. And we continue the defendant's case, I believe, Mr. Gillen?

MR. GILLEN: Thank you, Your Honor. The defense has called Jane Cleaver.

(Jane Cleaver was called to testify and was sworn by the courtroom deputy.)

THE COURT: You may proceed.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: Please state your full name and spell your name for the record.

THE WITNESS: My name is Jane cleaver. J-A-N-E. C-L-E-A-V-E-R.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. GILLEN:

Q. Good morning, Jane.

A. Good morning.

Q. As you know, I've asked you to come here and give testimony in this case, and it's customary to introduce yourself a little to the jury. Can you hear me?

A. I'm having a little problem.

Q. Okay, I'm sorry. This is, it's customary to give a little introduction as to who you are appearing here to testify before the court, and so I want to ask you first of all, do you live in Dover now, Jane?

A. No, sir.

Q. But did you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And for how long did you live in Dover?

A. For 56 years.

Q. And are you married currently?

A. I'm widowed.

Q. Were you married?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you have children?

A. Two children.

Q. Do you have grandchildren?

A. Four grandchildren.

Q. Do you have great-grandchildren?

A. Four great-grandchildren.

Q. Give us a sense of your educational background, Jane. What was your education?

A. My education was two weeks in the ninth greed at Dover High School.

Q. Just give us an idea of why you cut off then.

A. Well, at that time that was back in the 30's, there really weren't school buses to take us, take children to the school, and I was from a large family, and if there would have been buses my parents couldn't gave afforded that. For two weeks I walked back and forth to school about two and a half miles every day, and I would have loved to have, to graduate, but it was impossible.

Q. Okay. Well, nonetheless did you work while you were in Dover?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And what did you do?

A. I operated several businesses and rented houses, and I just loved our community and the people in our community. It was just an honor for me to be in that community.

Q. All right. Well, give us a sense of your business endeavors. What businesses did you run while you were in Dover?

A. I ran and operated the Dover Department Store and two other department stores.

Q. Okay.

A. And rented homes there.

Q. How about the five and ten? I've heard you ran the five and ten.

A. It was originally called a five and ten, and then later changed to the Dover Department Store.

Q. Okay, and has your lack of formal education hampered you in life or have you done pretty well?

A. Not at all, sir. I've done very well.

Q. All right. Now, there was a time when you were on the Dover area school district board, is that correct?

A. Pardon me, sir?

Q. That's all right. There was a time when you joined the Dover area school district school board?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And about when was that?

A. That was about June or July of 2002.

Q. Okay. Were you elected or appointed?

A. Appointed.

Q. And who appointed you?

A. The board.

Q. Do you know why there was need for the board to appoint you?

A. Because there were two resignations.

Q. Do you know who resigned?

A. Mr. Snook and Mr. Langioni.

Q. Why did you apply to fill one of those vacancies?

A. Well, sir, I attended many board meetings before I ever applied for this position, and I observed what was being said by Mr. Snook and by Mr. Langioni and all the other board members as far as that.

Q. You said you observed what was said. Was there a big issue in the community at this time related to the schools?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us what that was.

A. The issue was the building project was in, was looming large, and I had great concerns and questions about how the old board was handling this project. And so I was, I had concerns if they were handling it in a responsible manner.

Q. Well, was there anything about your personal background that made you think you could add value to the process?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us what it was.

A. My personal background being in business for 33 and a half years, I thought maybe that I could contribute something to this project.

Q. Okay. You've mentioned that in the period prior to your joining the board there was discussion of the building project. Did you observe Mr. Snook and Mr. Langioni discussing the building project?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And did you arrive at an opinion concerning how they were conducting themselves? Were they serving the community?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And what did you think?

A. Neither Mr. Snook nor Mr. Langioni made a good impression as far as my concerns, not to me.

Q. And did that opinion you formed sort of influence the way you viewed them later when they came to board meetings?

A. Yes.

Q. And in what way, what was your thought?

A. Well, I could not, I did not put no value in their opinions or in their judgment. They did not use good judgment.

Q. Well, let me ask you this. When you were appointed to the board, were you approved unanimously?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you recall who voted against you?

A. Ms. Callahan.

Q. Did she ever tell you why?

A. No, sir.

Q. Okay. If you're looking at the board and their attitude towards the building project, you mentioned Mr. Snook and Mr. Langioni. Did you see Mrs. Callahan as agreeing with them or differing with them on the building project?

A. She agreed with Mr. Snook and Mr. Langioni.

Q. Did that affect your relationship with her on the board?

A. Yes.

Q. And tell us how.

A. Truthfully again I can put no value on her opinions or her comments.

Q. Well, what's your point there? Where do you differ in judgment?

A. They really didn't care of how much money they were spending and how much it was really costing the taxpayers.

Q. All right. Let's look at your involvement, if any, with the Dover area school district prior to coming to the board. Were you involved with the schools prior to being appointed to the board?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, tell us how you were involved with the schools.

A. Well, first after 9/11 I heard President Bush speak on the television one evening and ask that our American children would take one dollar out of their piggy bank and send it to the Iraqi children, the children in Iraq. So I went to each of our schools and approached our principals and asked if they would make this a school project, in which they agreed, and quite a bit of money was collected and sent to our president.

Q. All right. That's one project. Was there another?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us about that.

A. Well, I felt after 9/11 I felt that our nation needed to get back to the basics. When I was a kid and went to school we had, we said prayer every morning, and I felt it started our day off very nicely. But I realized in this day and age prayer would be unlawful, would be against the law to be, to be said in the schools today, but I had heard that a moment of silence would be allowed. So I encouraged that.

Q. Did anything happen as a result of these efforts on your part?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us what happened.

A. The Dover schools adopted a policy allowing a moment of silence to begin each day.

Q. Now, you've mentioned coming to the board. Were you appointed to any committees when you came to the board?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us what they were.

A. Community education and policy.

Q. Okay. You mentioned, let's talk about the policy committee. Did you do a lot of work while you were on the policy committee?

A. Not really.

Q. And why was that?

A. Because Casey Brown was head of the policy committee, and she did mostly whatever she wanted to and had no consideration for what the rest of us thought.

Q. Well, does the policy committee deal with curriculum?

A. No, sir.

Q. What about community ed? What does that community deal with?

A. Community ed is mostly for the adults to take bus trips and activities that the adults are involved in.

Q. Okay. Did you do a lot of work on that community while you were on the school district?

A. There was not too much work involved in that, sir.

Q. Okay. All right, let's look at the period from when you first joined the board up until January of 2004. Do you recall any discussion of the biology text or biology curriculum during that period from when you first joined the board up until 2004?

A. No, sir.

Q. How about let's look at 2004, from January through the end of May 2004. Do you remember any discussion of the biology text or biology curriculum during that period?

A. Not that I recall, sir.

Q. Okay. Well, that brings us to June, and I want to ask you do you remember school board meetings during the June period?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have a specific recollection of two different meetings, or do they blur together?

A. Truthfully those two meetings are kind of a blur. They run together. I couldn't really separate the two.

Q. Well, I understand. Let me ask you this, during this June 2004 period do you recall any mention of intelligent design?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you recall anything specific?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you ask any questions about it during this period?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you remember anything else that was said during these board meetings in June? Do you remember any discussion of the biology text?

A. No, sir.

Q. How about do you recall issues about whether the texts would to be purchased or a newer text would be purchased?

A. Yes.

Q. Well, do you recall Bert Spahr addressing the biology textbook?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. All right. Tell us what you recall Bert saying.

A. I recall Ms. Spahr wanted a new biology book. They were not satisfied with the book they had. She wanted a new one. But at that time we, the book was, we were going to buy this book for the school, we found out that there was a new edition, a later edition coming out. So I think that our approval was put on hold at that time.

Q. Okay. How about Charlotte Buckingham. She's been mentioned here during these proceedings as speaking at a board meeting. Do you remember Charlotte Buckingham speaking?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us what you recall about that.

A. I remember Ms. Buckingham quoting the Book of Genesis and mentioning creationism.

Q. And sitting as a board member, what was your reaction to Charlotte's comments?

A. Truthfully I felt that this was the wrong time and the wrong place.

Q. And what do you mean by that?

A. Well, I share in Ms. Buckingham's faith, but I do not want religion taught in our schools. There's a time and a place for that.

Q. Okay. Did you know Charlotte Buckingham?

A. I knew Charlotte Buckingham.

Q. Were you friends with her?

A. Yes, I became friends with Charlotte back when I was trying to, when I was in the process of getting a moment of silence into our schools. She was a secretary at one of the churches, and that's where I first met her.

Q. You say you didn't want religion taught in the public schools. How about creationism?

A. No, sir, I don't want creationism taught the schools.

Q. Well, and explain why not.

A. Because I think creationism should be taught in churches and in the homes, but not in schools.

Q. At the time that Charlotte Buckingham addressed the board, did you believe that any member was considering a policy that would require the teaching of creationism in Dover schools?

A. No, sir.

Q. While you've been on the board has the Dover area school district ever sought to require the teaching of creationism?

A. Not that I recall, sir.

Q. Well, how about intelligent design? When you heard that term mentioned, did you think that was creationism?

A. No, sir.

Q. And why is that?

A. Because I heard a lot of talk about intelligent design, and as far as intelligent design I don't think there's ever anything that's mentioned about creationism, not that I know of.

Q. Did you read the paper during the June, July 2004 period, Jane?

A. No, sir.

Q. And why was that?

A. Because I didn't get it.

Q. And why didn't you get it?

A. Because of the reporter Joe.

Q. Well, explain that.

A. Well, when I got on the board and Joe would come to me, whatever I told Joe, Joe put the opposite in the paper. Joe doesn't know how to tell the truth. He only knows how to tell a lie.

Q. Did you ever speak to Joe -- is this Joe Maldonado? Is it Joe Maldonado you're referring to?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you ever speak to Joe and voice objection?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And did Joe's reporting change in your opinion as a result?

A. No, sir.

Q. How about Mrs. Bubb? Did you speak with her?

A. No, sir.

Q. And why was that?

A. Because Ms. Bubb and Joe sat together at the meetings and shared notes, and I was afraid that whatever I told Ms. Bubb she would share with Joe, and I did not trust Joe.

Q. Just in your opinion how about the reporting by Ms. Bubb? Was that more accurate, or did you have problems with that?

A. About ditto. About ditto with Joe.

Q. Would you explain that again, Jane? I didn't quite get you.

A. Well, as Ms. Bubb's reporting was about the same as what Joe's was, so I didn't want any of the reporters close to me. In fact, I told Joe to stay away from me, don't get near me, you don't know how to tell the truth. You only know how the tell the untruth.

Q. Let me ask you this. This is the July 2004 period, were there any developments in your personal life that would affect your participation on the Dover area school district school board?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us about those.

A. I had decided to move to Florida, and I bought my home July 21st in Florida. And I lived in Florida until August the 2nd -- or August the 11th, pardon me, and I came home to Pennsylvania to avoid the Hurricane Charlie.

Q. Is that why you remember the dates so well, Jane?

A. Very well.

Q. Go ahead.

A. Charlie hit on August the 13th. And after I heard about the damage that Charlie had done to my home, I returned to Florida August the 15th and then I did not return to Dover until October the 2nd.

Q. Okay. You say you returned in October. I just want to be sure, did you attend any board meetings in August of 2004?

A. No, sir.

Q. How about September of 2004?

A. No, sir.

Q. When you returned to Dover were you prepared to attend the board meetings in October of 2004?

A. Pardon me, sir?

Q. When you returned in October did you attend board meetings there?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did there come a time when the textbook Of Pandas came to your attention?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How did that text come to your attention?

A. When I returned to Dover October the 2nd I called my sister-in-law to tell her I was home and to chat with her, and she said to me there's a big controversy about Dover, a book called Pandas and People, and she doesn't know what it's all about, but the paper has been stating that Dover schools are going to be teaching creationism.

Q. Well, let me ask you, prior to that time had you ever heard of the text Of Pandas?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you go to the board meeting on October 4th?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And did the book come to your attention in connection with that meeting?

A. It was on the agenda, sir.

Q. Did you do anything when you saw it on the agenda?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us what you did.

A. I asked Mr. Buckingham.

Q. You asked him for what?

A. About the book Of Pandas.

Q. And?

A. And he stated that it spoke about intelligent design, and Mr. Buckingham thought that, or his feelings were that our students, this book should be available so that our students could refer to it.

Q. Well, you were on the school board. Did you do anything yourself as a result of what Mr. Buckingham told you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us what you did.

A. I asked Mr. Buckingham for a copy of that book.

Q. And did you read it?

A. I read parts of it. Most of it.

Q. Based on what you read did you think intelligent design was creationism?

A. No, sir.

Q. And again why is that, Jane?

A. Because in the book Of Pandas and People there is no mention of the Bible or of God or creationism.

Q. Well, if the book wasn't about creationism, what did you think the book was about?

A. I think this book is just another theory, intelligent design to me is just another scientific text or another theory.

Q. Now, did there come a time when a proposed change to the biology curriculum came to your attention?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And when was that?

A. I think that was October the 18th.

Q. Okay. That would be the second board meeting in October? Is that the meeting you're thinking of?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay, and when did it come to your attention, Jane?

A. I think if I can recall, that may have been the first meeting that there was going to be a change in October, and then I think the 18th is when we voted on it.

Q. Okay. Let's look at that 18th and try and fix your mind again on the public comments. Do you remember anything in terms of public comment at that meeting?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us what you remember.

A. I remember again Ms. Spahr getting up, and her comments were that they did not want to teach intelligent design because she felt intelligent design was creationism.

Q. Well, what was your reaction to that statement?

A. I disagreed.

Q. And why was that, Jane?

A. Well, because they were at that time Alan Bonsell was president of the board, and Alan Bonsell and Dr. Nilsen had also stated that the teachers would not be made to teach intelligent design.

Q. Do you remember any other public comment during this meeting?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Tell us what you remember.

A. I remember Noel Renwich --

Q. Okay.

A. -- making some amendments about this policy in quite a few amendments, but to me it did not make a point to me.

Q. What do you mean by that, Jane?

A. Well, it made no sense to me. I felt that it was not the right time and place for this.

Q. Do you remember any board members saying anything when the voting started and these motions were made?

A. There were other members, there were other people that made, that talked about this, but I don't really know who they were.

Q. Okay. Did you vote for the curriculum change?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And why did you do so? What information were you relying on?

A. Well, sir, I felt that there's our children, our students should be made aware of other theories that are out there in biology.

Q. Well, let me ask you, did you understand that the curriculum change would require the teachers to teach intelligent design?

A. The teachers were not -- give me that again sir, please.

Q. Certainly. Did you think that the curriculum change would require teaches to teach intelligent design?

A. No, sir.

Q. And again why is that, Jane? What put hat idea in your mind when you voted?

A. Because at the time Alan Bonsell was president, and they were told definitely they did not have to teach creationism or intelligent design.

Q. Prior to this meeting had you had any discussion with board members about the curriculum change?

A. No, sir.

Q. So what you heard at the meeting was really all you were relying on?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When you voted for the curriculum change, Jane, did you believe it would result in making students aware of creationism or something different?

A. No, sir.

Q. And why was that?

A. I voted in favor of the change because I wanted to, I wanted our students just to be made aware of other theories that are out there, and I thought it would be good for education.

Q. When you voted for the curriculum change did you think intelligent design was religious?

A. No, sir.

Q. What did you think intelligent design was?

A. To me intelligent design is just another scientific text or another theory.

Q. Okay. And for that -- well, let me ask you, did you vote for the curriculum change for religious reasons, Jane?

A. No, sir.

Q. Again just explain what's your purpose in voting for it then.

A. Because again the purpose for me voting for a change is because I felt that there are to be more than one theory that these students should be made aware of. There are so many theories out there, but the student does not have to be taught but that the student be made aware, and I think it makes for a better education.

MR. GILLEN: I have no further questions, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Gillen. Cross examination by Mr. Schmidt?

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. SCHMIDT:

Q. Good morning, Mrs. Cleaver. Can you hear me all right?

A. I can hear you.

Q. I understand you've come back from Florida to be with us today, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I hope one of your former colleagues was good enough to put you up.

A. I'm staying with my daughter.

Q. Good. When did you sell your home in Dover?

A. I didn't sell my home.

Q. How often do you come back?

A. How often do I come back?

Q. To the Dover area.

A. About twice a year.

Q. You purchased your house in Florida in July of 2004, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Just to be clear about the dates, you spent July after the closing and most of August except for the hurricane, and all of September in Florida?

A. I came home August the 11th to get away from Hurricane Charlie, and went back August the 15th.

Q. And then returned I think you said on October 2nd?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. Let me ask you a little bit about your service on the Dover board. You told us this morning that you obtained an appointment to the board in the summer of 2002, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Isn't it true that there were other candidates that were being considered by the board for appointment at that time?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Wasn't one of the candidates who was appointed Mr. Buckingham?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And wasn't there a candidate who was a fellow with an engineering degree who was also interested like you were in the construction issue?

A. I don't know what his background was, sir.

Q. Okay, but there was another candidate who was interested --

A. Yes, there was another candidate.

Q. Also interested in the school issue, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And he was an engineer, wasn't he?

A. I have no idea.

Q. Isn't it true that during the summer of Mr. and Mrs. Brown approached you several times to try to persuade you to join the Dover area school board?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Made a couple of visits to your house?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You didn't agree with them when they first approached you about joining the board, did you?

A. On many opinions I did not agree.

Q. Well, I'm just asking about one, they wanted you to join the board, and you didn't agree when Jeff and Casey Brown approached you about joining the board in the summer of 2002, isn't that right?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, later on in that time period Alan Bonsell approached you and asked you to join the board, isn't that right?

A. He did not ask me.

Q. Did he try to persuade you?

A. Sir, I've known Alan Bonsell since he was a child, and his parents, and one evening Allen Bonsell had called me, not concerning the school board, about something, but we did get into the conversation of the school board, and up until that time when the Browns approached me I could not give them an answer. I just did not. I attended all those board meetings, but I could not give them an answer, but it was like a light bulb went off in my head and I said to Alan yes, I'm going to apply, Alan.

Q. Okay.

A. That's when I gave my answer to Alan.

Q. He told you he was pleased, didn't he?

A. And he was pleased.

Q. You've known him as you said since he was a little boy?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you have a very high regard for him, don't you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You think he's a clear thinking person?

A. I have the deepest respect for Alan.

Q. And you would tend to accept his judgment about things, isn't that right, Mrs. Cleaver?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And I think it's fair to say you were guided in your work on the school board often by what Mr. Bonsell had to say or the positions that he took, isn't that right?

A. Let me say this to you, sir. I'm an independent person, and I'm not a rubber stamp for anyone, and I respect Alan Bonsell very, very much. I still have my own opinion.

Q. You told me a minute ago that Mr. Buckingham was the other person who was appointed there in mid 2002, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you had met Mr. Buckingham's wife earlier in that year, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I think you answered a question or two by Mr. Gillen about a project you undertook involving having the board approve a moment of silence before school every morning.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And I think that the other part of that project was to have the Pledge of Allegiance said in the Dover school district?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I think as part of your effort in that project you went from church to church in the Dover area, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And I think it was in one of those visits to a church that you met Mrs. Buckingham, who was a financial secretary I think for the Harmony Grove Church, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you told her what you were up to, and she came out to the board meeting in February of to support your effort, isn't that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I think you said, at least my notes indicates that you thought something was lost when prayer stopped being said in school, isn't that right?

A. That was my opinion, sir, because as I was growing up as a kid we had prayer, and I felt that when prayer was taken out of school there was something lost. But that was only my opinion.

Q. Well, isn't that an opinion that you shared with Mr. Buckingham and Alan Bonsell and Heather Geesey as far as you know?

A. Not as far as getting prayer back into school.

Q. Well, let me be clear about my question. My question was only isn't it your understanding that Mr. Buckingham and Mr. Bonsell and Heather Geesey, who was also on the school board, shared your view that something valuable was lost when prayer was taken out of the school?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, you said you were appointed in the summer of 2002. You then ran for election, didn't you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You ran in the fall of 2003 and you were elected and took your seat as an elected member in December of 2003, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I think you expressed yourself very vigorously about your views of Mr. Maldonado, but let me ask you a few questions about your approach to learning what's happening at the school. Isn't it true that when you got on the school board you stopped taking the local paper?

A. After a few weeks of being on the school board I did stop getting the paper.

Q. Okay. And you stopped reading the paper?

A. Absolutely.

Q. But you didn't lack for information about goings on in the Dover community, did you? You were able to find out what was going on?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And what was being discussed in the Dover community, is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. But you had not only your own social and business life, but you would attend borough meetings and township meetings, isn't that right?

A. Yes.

Q. So you had a pretty good sense of what was under discussion --

A. Yes.

Q. -- in Dover all the time you were on the board, right?

A. Yes.

Q. I have another question about how you collected information about what happened at the school board. You said that you were on the community education committee?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And on the policy committee?

A. Yes.

Q. And of course you attended board meetings at least up until the time you purchased your house in Florida, is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Isn't it true that you didn't review minutes of board meetings after they were issued?

A. At first I did, the first couple of meetings, but after that I may have skipped through them, but not really read them all.

Q. Did you review minutes before you came to testify today?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Did you review the transcript of your deposition last June?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Now, I understand that your sense of the discussion of a new biology book was first something that you paid attention to in June of 2004.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Isn't it your understanding that the issue before the board at that time was whether to spend the money?

A. Correct.

Q. Not about anything else, was it? Just spending the money?

A. No, that's not true either, sir. The issue was that the biology book that Ms. Spahr wanted, first Mr. Bonsell wanted to do some research and check to see how much difference it was in the new biology book compared to the book that they had already had.

Q. Now, let me get a couple of things straight with you if I could. You were not on the curriculum committee, were you?

A. No, sir.

Q. And do you know that the 2004 biology book was something reviewed by the school administration in the middle part of July in 2004? Are you aware of that?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you know that there was a 2004 edition of the biology textbook before it was reviewed by superintendent Nilsen and assistant superintendent Baksa and Bert Spahr and Jen Miller in July of 2004?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you ever look at the biology textbook yourself?

A. No, sir.

Q. You relied entirely on the curriculum committee?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you knew that Mr. Buckingham was the chair of the curriculum committee?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, you said in a candid answer to Mr. Gillen's question that the June meetings kind of blurred together in your mind, but I gather you remember a couple of things. You remember that Bert Spahr made a statement about the need for new biology books, right?

A. Give me that again, sir.

Q. You remember at the June meetings, and I'm not asking you to separate them because they run together, that Bert Spahr made a statement in support of the new biology textbook?

A. Yes.

Q. You didn't have much use for Mrs. Spahr's opinions about things, did you?

A. I had, I valued some of her opinions, but not all of them. I didn't agree with her on all of them.

Q. What kind of opinions didn't you agree about?

A. Well, as far as education and wanting the new biology book, if there was a great change in that biology book then I felt that we should get the book. But up until that point I wanted to wait and see what the new edition was like and what was new.

Q. But in June you didn't know there was a new edition, did you?

A. No, I did not.

Q. The other thing you remember about the June meeting was a statement made by Charlotte Buckingham, whom you had known for almost two years?

A. Uh-huh.

Q. And her statement had some references to Genesis and was in support of teaching creationism in the Dover High School, correct?

A. I remember her comments, yes.

Q. And as I heard your testimony this morning the only other thing you remember about the June meeting on this issue was that the words intelligent design were used?

A. Yes.

Q. That's it?

A. That's it.

Q. Do you remember Mr. Buckingham saying anything about a textbook being laced with Darwinism?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you remember anything that Mr. Buckingham said about someone died on the cross two thousand years ago?

A. I do not recall of any statement.

Q. Just intelligent design, that's all you remember on that subject?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who used the phrase intelligent design, Mrs. Cleaver, do you recall?

A. When I first heard about this with the book Of Pandas, when I came back in October I heard about this intelligent design mentioned, I think that was in July the last meeting. But I didn't know anything about intelligent design at that point.

Q. I want to be clear about where at that point was. Let's take it step by step. Isn't it true that in June you didn't know anything about intelligent design?

A. No, I did not.

Q. And isn't it true that in June you didn't hear anybody mention intelligent design?

A. No, I don't recall that I did.

Q. Okay, and you think now that you may have heard someone mention intelligent design in July?

A. I may have, but I don't -- I'm not sure on that.

Q. Isn't it your testimony this morning that the first contact you had with the book Of Pandas and People was after you returned home on October 2nd?

A. Correct.

Q. You were given a copy of that by Bill Buckingham, right?

A. I asked Mr. Buckingham for a copy of it, yes.

Q. You said you didn't read all of it, but I gather you kind of paged through it, is that a fair description?

A. Yes.

Q. And when you paged through it, were you looking at anything in particular? For instance were you looking for a use of the term God or creationism?

A. Yes, I did look for that.

Q. How did you do that, with the index?

A. I went through page per page.

Q. But skimmed it, right?

A. But skipped some of it, but there was no mention of God or the Bible in the book Of Pandas and People.

Q. Now, I gather, and this is only relying on testimony you gave earlier that you found Of Pandas and People a little hard to read, is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. And I take it that you didn't really think it was an appropriate textbook for younger high school students, am I right about that?

A. This is only my opinion, sir.

Q. That's all I'm asking for.

A. But I feel that the book Of Pandas and People are like from the 9th grade through the 12th, not for younger people.

Q. So you would say if a kid is below the 9th grade it would be okay, but high school it might be all right?

A. Yes.

Q. Did anybody on the board ever tell you that they had done a study for whether Of Pandas and People was an appropriate high school textbook?

A. No, sir.

Q. You never did any research on your own about whether Pandas and People was a good book, right?

A. No, sir.

Q. You never did any research to see whether it was current science, did you?

A. No, sir.

Q. I think you said that you came back on October 2nd and your sister told you there was a controversy, or did I get that wrong?

A. I came back October the 2nd, and it was a day after whenever I called my sister-in-law to say hello and tell her I was home, and in the course of our conversation she said there's quite a big controversy in Dover about the book called Pandas and People, whatever that's about, and that Dover is going to be teaching creationism.

Q. Okay.

A. And then I went to our meeting October the 4th, and that book was on our agenda.

Q. Now, you said that the book was on the agenda on October the 4th.

A. Right.

Q. What action if you recall was to be taken by the board on the book of Pandas and People on October 4th? Do you recall anything about that?

A. Well, as far as the action being taken the teachers would not, were told that they were not going to teach Pandas, anything out of the book Of Pandas and People, that the book was only to be there that the students can use as a reference, but the teachers would not be teaching.

Q. Isn't it true, Mrs. Cleaver, that the subject of the curriculum change and the use of the book Of Pandas and People didn't come up on October 4th, but came up on the October 18th meeting agenda?

A. On the October the 18th --

Q. Isn't that when you voted on whether there should be a change in the curriculum?

A. On the 18th is when we voted on that.

Q. That's when the decision was made to list Of Pandas and People as a reference book, isn't that right?

A. That may have been.

Q. And I know you had a planning meeting on the 4th, but you didn't consider the curriculum change or how to use Of Pandas and People on October 4th, did you?

A. Would you say that again?

Q. Isn't it true that at the planning meeting of the board on October the 4th, you didn't really consider a curriculum change or how Of Pandas and People would be used in the biology class?

A. I think that was, that change was made on the 18th of October.

Q. All right, thank you. Now, at the meeting on the 18th Bert Spahr made another statement, didn't she?

A. Yes.

Q. And she said at that statement that she thought intelligent design should not be taught in the high school, isn't that right?

A. Right.

Q. And she said that Of Pandas and People was not a good science book, isn't that right?

A. I think she did.

Q. She's the only person that you ever heard express an opinion who had some scientific training about teaching intelligent design or using Of Pandas and People, isn't she?

A. I heard others, but Bert Spahr took the floor and she's the one that I recall the most.

Q. Okay.

A. There was other people that spoke, but I don't recall what they said.

Q. Let me say my question again in a slightly different way. Isn't it true that all of the people that spoke at the October 18th meeting who had some scientific background who were teachers at the high school spoke against the changed in the curriculum and using Of Pandas and People?

A. They did speak against it.

Q. And the only people who were for it were Alan Bonsell and Mr. Buckingham, isn't that right?

A. I don't think so. I don't recall that at all.

Q. At the October 18th meeting isn't it true that no board member explained or expressed the reason why or how the change in the curriculum would improve education at the Dover High School, isn't that true?

A. Would you please state that again?

Q. Isn't it true that at the October 18th meeting no one from the board explained or expressed how the change in curriculum would improve education at the Dover High School, isn't that true? It was the series of folks, wasn't it, Mrs. Cleaver?

A. Yes.

Q. And you voted with Mr. Buckingham every time, isn't that right?

A. I voted in my opinion what I thought was right.

Q. Okay, let me put it a different way. You said a few moments ago that Noel Renwich made a series of amendments to the proposed change in the curriculum, isn't that right?

A. Correct.

Q. And you recall that process, don't you?

A. Yes, I do recall.

Q. The whole series of votes, I thought there were seven or eight or more, right?

A. Right.

Q. And those votes required you to either support the change in the curriculum or to fend off an amendment by Mr. Renwich, isn't that right?

A. Yes.

Q. And in all of those votes you voted with Mr. Buckingham, isn't that right?

A. I voted for them. If Mr. Buckingham voted for them when I voted, yes.

Q. And in the end you voted to include Of Pandas and People as a reference book?

A. Yes.

Q. And you voted to include a requirement that intelligent design be mentioned or referred to as part of the curriculum, isn't that right?

A. What I voted for is intelligent design that our students could refer to it, but not be taught intelligent design.

Q. And you did that as you said this morning because you thought intelligent design was another theory?

A. In opinion, I'm not a scientist, to me that's another science text, that's what it is.

Q. And it was another theory to be compared to evolution as a theory, right?

A. Well, if that's -- I guess that could be put that way --

Q. Okay.

A. -- as far as I'm concerned. I didn't think of evolution, but I just thought there should be other theories that our children should be made aware of.

Q. Well, you know that intelligent design is a theory according to your understanding that has to do with the same subject matter as evolution, am I right about that? Is that a clear question?

A. No, it's not, sir.

Q. Let me try it again. You know that there are other theories in science, and even in biology, right?

A. Correct.

Q. But it's only evolution that in your mind requires that other theories be made available. Isn't that true?

A. I just feel that there's other theories out there that, we have the greatest science in the word right here in our nation, and that our students should be made aware of some of these theories.

Q. But the other theories that you're referring to have to do with the same subject matter as evolution, not all the other scientific theories that are out there, isn't that right?

A. Well, sir, as far as other theories, I think those are the only theories that are available, the only theory available to our students is evolution. So that's why I say other theories are out there.

Q. Just two more quick questions. When you voted for the curriculum on October the 18th --

A. Yes, sir.

Q. -- you yourself didn't really understand intelligent design. You just knew that it was as you put it another theory, is that right?

A. Correct.

MR. SCHMIDT: That was my only question. Thanks very much.

THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Schmidt. Redirect, Mr. Gillen?

REDIRECT BY MR. GILLEN:

Q. Sure. Jane, we talked about this yesterday and I don't want to belabor the point. I know it's hard for you to try to date things specifically, but I want to ask you this question just by way of trying to mark when you first heard of intelligent design. Do you remember Charlotte Buckingham speaking at a board meeting?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Okay, and do you recall that that presentation she gave was in June of 2004, one of the, again one of the two meetings?

A. Truthfully I cannot remember if that was in June or what meeting that was. It could have been June.

Q. Okay. Well, do you think it was in the summer?

A. I think it was in the summer.

Q. Okay, let me ask you this.

A. You know, may I say something, Mr. Gillen?

Q. You may.

A. Because I was gone after July, it had to be June or July that she spoke.

Q. Okay, let me ask you this. Do you recall intelligent design being mentioned before or after Charlotte spoke?

A. I think that was after.

Q. You do?

A. I'm not sure.

Q. I know it's hard for you to remember.

A. I'm not sure.

MR. GILLEN: Well, that's it. No further questions.

MR. SCHMIDT: No recross.

THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am, very much. You're excused. That will complete your testimony.

MR. GILLEN: My next witness, may I confer with counsel?

THE COURT: You may.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GILLEN: Your Honor, the defense will call Alan Bonsell.

(Alan Bonsell was called to testify and was sworn by the courtroom deputy.)

COURTROOM DEPUTY: State and spell your full name for the record.

THE WITNESS: My name is Alan Bonsell. A-L-A-N. B-O-N-S-E-L-L.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. GILLEN:

Q. Good morning, Mr. Bonsell.

A. Good morning.

Q. Let's just get out a few facts about you as a person here. Are you married?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. Do you have children?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. How many?

A. I have two children in school.

Q. Okay. Tell us about the children in school. Do they attend Dover schools?

A. My daughter is in 9th grade at Dover and my son is in 11th grade, but he is presently at York Technical School. He went to Dover through 9th grade and then went to York Tech.

Q. Tell us a little bit about your educational background. What's your education?

A. I graduated from West York High School, which is right next to Dover, and I also graduated college, York College of Pennsylvania.

Q. And what was your course of study?

A. My major was in management business administration.

Q. Are you currently employed?

A. I am.

Q. How so?

A. I've been a business owner, C.R. Smith Radiator and Auto Repair, since 1984.

Q. Are you currently a member of the Dover area school district school board?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. Okay, let's talk about how you came to the board. When did you first join the school board?

A. I joined the school board in it would have been December of 2001.

Q. Were you elected or appointed?

A. I was elected.

Q. And I take it you ran for office?

A. Yes, I did. I ran in the primaries in May of 2001, and then was elected in the general election in November of 2001.

Q. And why did you run for that office?

A. Well, I ran for a number of reasons. One is for fiscal responsibility. There was a big fight going on at the time with the building project, and also my goal is to give back to the community and try to make Dover the best school in the county.

Q. Let's look at the building project. When you ran, what were you seeking to improve with respect to the district's approach to the building project? What did you see the problems were?

A. One of the problems with the building project was that the current board was trying to push through as the people in Dover liked to call it, a Taj Mahal version of the high school, which were they were talking about spending thirty, forty million dollars on a high school building project, which a lot of us in the community felt was ridiculous being in the kind of tax revenue situation that we have in Dover.

Q. And what is that tax revenue situation?

A. Well, we have like the second lowest I believe tax revenue of any school district in the county, and I wanted to be sure and I think most people wanted to be sure that every dollar that we spend actually goes, you know, to the kids' education and not to some big building.

Q. When you ran for school board was there a religious dimension to your platform or campaign?

A. None at all, no.

Q. Well, did you have a specific platform that you ran on?

A. We ran on taking of, of stopping the building project and going back and redesigning it and making sure it was educationally sound for the kids, as well as being affordable for the taxpayer, and also to make sure that the kids, our students had what they needed as far as books and technology, and like I said before to try to improve the educational standards in the public school of Dover.

Q. Okay. You said, "We ran." Who did you run with?

A. I ran with Sheila Harkins, Angie Yeungling, and Casey, or Mrs. Brown.

Q. Well, let's take them one at a time just to take a look at how you came to know them. Why did you run with Sheila Harkins?

A. Sheila Harkins was one of the I guess minority board members at the time, and she had a lot of the same concerns that I did. So just obvious joining her.

Q. Okay. Did you know Sheila Harkins before you ran with her?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Did you discuss some sort of religious agenda when you decided to run with Sheila Harkins?

A. No. No, I did not.

Q. How about Angie Yeungling, you mentioned her. Why did you run with Angie Yeungling?

A. Well, Angie Yeungling would come to board meetings along with at the board meetings I would and was an outspoken critic of the board with the building project and was someone also that had the same leanings I did, that wanted a better education for our kids but wanted to also make sure that the tax money was spent properly.

Q. Did you know Angie Yeungling before you ran with her?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Did you discuss any religious agenda --

A. No.

Q. -- with Angie Yeungling before you decided to run with her?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. How about Casey Brown? Why did you run with her?

A. Casey Brown was also a minority member on the board at the time and basically was like Sheila Harkins, was basically railing against the building project, and also along the same line, I mean, everybody had this sort of same mindset when it came to that, on what we ran on.

Q. Did you discuss any religious agenda with Casey Brown when you decided to run with her?

A. No.

Q. You've mentioned the building project, and several witnesses have, and I'd like to get a sense here for the record of the impact that that project has had on the Dover community. How would you describe that impact?

A. Well, I mean as far as impact --

Q. Well, has it been something that brought the community together, divided it?

A. Well, there was a lot of meetings where there was hundreds of people at, and they were all in the same agreement as I was, and I believe after that, I mean the community came together in the fact that they voted us into office, we did what we said we were going to do and to revamp that. I mean, I believe there's still probably, there's still I believe some grudges that are with people today.

Q. Well, let's look at this period before you come to the board. Did you personally do anything designed to mobilize community sentiment with respect to the building project?

A. Did we do anything? One thing I remember doing that there was a petition that was signed that went around the Dover area to sign to tell the board to stop what they're doing and go back and look and see what the students actually needed and not what somebody wanted, and I believe there was almost close to 1,800 signatures from the Dover community, which was that was a lot of signatures that came together, and was presented to the board.

Q. Did you play a role in that?

A. Yes, yes.

Q. And do you know how the petitions were received by the board at that time?

A. Yes, I can remember it vividly. It was given to the board and --

Q. By whom?

A. I believe I presented the petitions to the board at a board meeting. This is before I was on the board, and I believe it was Lonnie Langioni who basically took the petitions up, I remember standing up, turning around, and throwing the petitions basically on the floor.

Q. Well, who was on the board at this time when you presented the petitions?

A. Well, the plaintiff Barrie Callahan was on the board, Lonnie Langioni, Larry Snook, Mr. Murphy, and there was some others, too.

Q. Did you have, did the election you've referenced in November of 2001 have an impact on the build project?

A. Did the election have an impact on the building --

Q. Yes.

A. Yes, it did. I mean, the building project was stopped after that point. One of the things going back to the petitions and everything is that I remember after the primary, when we won the primary we asked the board to stop it because we were going to stop the building project, but I remember that the group of, Barrie Callahan and them that kept pushing this forward trying to push, ram it through before we were elected in the fall, and spent, oh my, I think they wasted half a million dollars or more, which we then stopped, we went back starting in 2002 and revamped the whole building project.

Q. Did the election results you mentioned have an impact on the ability of the individuals you mentioned, Snook, Langioni, Mrs. Callahan, to influence the board's actions?

A. Well, the thing was before the election they were part of the majority that was trying to push this through and was basically a 6-3 board at the time. When the election took place and I took office in `01, December of `01, it changed the dynamics of it from a 6-3 board in favor of the old more expensive project to a 6-3 board in going back to relook at the project.

Q. Did the division between board members you have described along the lines relating to the build project affect your ability to work with Mr. Snook, Mr. Langioni, and Mrs. Callahan? How was your relationship with Larry Snook after you came on the board?

A. Well, I mean relationships were strained somewhat. I mean, I tried to work with the people as best as I could, but like I said, I think there were some hard feelings from those three.

Q. How about Mr. Langioni, same situation or different?

A. Same situation.

Q. How about with Mrs. Callahan?

A. Really with Mrs. Callahan, I mean, I remember the time period over the years where she basically publicly criticized the board, even calling us, as far as calling us anti-education.

Q. Did the three members you mentioned remain on the board?

A. Well, they were supposed to be I believe on for two more years, but some point at some point I believe in the spring of, somewhere around the spring of 2002 I believe Lonnie Langioni and Larry Snook came into the meeting, basically criticized the board, said, "We quit, we resign," and walked out of the meeting.

Q. How about -- well, what was your reaction to that?

A. I felt it was ridiculous. I felt it was childish.

Q. How about Mrs. Callahan? Did she remain on the board?

A. She remained on the board through the rest of her term.

Q. And was she re-elected?

A. No, she was not re-elected.

Q. Now, is the resignation of Mr. Snook and Mr. Langioni when Jane Cleaver and Bill Buckingham were appointed?

A. Yes. At the time when we have resignations like that the state tells the board that they have a certain period of time where they need to advertise for people who might want to come on the board. Then we have a meeting where we interview different people, and then we as a board, as always the board decides together, we elect people to fill those positions.

Q. Well, let's look at them one by one, starting with Mr. Buckingham. Did you have a personal friendship with Mr. Buckingham when he applied to fill the vacancy on the board?

A. No.

Q. Did you discuss religion or a religious agenda with Mr. Buckingham prior to appointing him or voting for his appointment?

A. No.

Q. Do you recall the vote that put Mr. Buckingham on the board?

A. Do I recall the vote?

Q. Yes. What the vote outcome was.

A. Well, the vote outcome was, the vote was to put him on the board. I don't know the exact --

Q. Okay. Had you asked Mr. Buckingham to apply?

A. No.

Q. Did you vote to approve him to fill the vacancy?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And why did you do that?

A. Well, in interviewing him basically he was saying that he had the same kind of fiscal responsibility, that that's what he was looking at. He wanted to make the school district better. You know, he was a police officer. I mean, it was -- I thought he would be a good fit.

Q. Did you know anything about Mr. Buckingham's religious convictions when you put him on the board?

A. No.

Q. Let's look at Jane cleaver. I mean, she's mentioned that you knew her. Did you have a personal friendship with her at the time?

A. I don't know if it was a personal friendship. I knew Jane cleaver ever since I was a little boy. She's lived in Dover for fifty or sixty years. She had a five and ten cent store on Main Street in Dover, and I didn't really have a per se friendship with her, but everybody, I think anybody that lived in Dover any period of time knew Jane. She was like one of the pillars of the community.

Q. Did you vote to put her on the board?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Why did you vote for Jane Cleaver?

A. I thought she would be an outstanding addition to the board. She knew Dover inside out. She knew the people, she had a business, she had the, she worked with people, with customers, with employees, had to run budgets, had to keep, I mean, everything that would be perfect to be on a board.

Q. Let's look at the building committee as seen through your eyes and its impact on the relationships with the faculty or staff at Dover. Do you think that the new board's attitude towards the building project had an affect on the relationships between the board and the teachers?

A. Well, I think somewhat as far as the high school teachers go because, you know, they were looking forward to this and building up to this, and then we stopped the project and revamped it and it took longer, and I think there might have been some teachers that had hard feelings about that.

Q. How about the teachers union? Did you feel like the building project affected relationships between the board and the union?

A. Well, the building project itself or other, just the building project itself? There probably was some things there that would, again going back with the teachers, with the union, there could be some hard feelings there.

Q. Was there any other issue during this period when you were first coming on the board and thereafter that affects the relationship between the board and the union?

A. The board and the union? With the building project itself?

Q. Yes. I'm just trying to get a sense, give the judge a sense for the climate in which this controversy is taking place. How about Mr. Miller? Is there anything about Mr. Miller that comes to mind?

A. Well, Mr. Miller comes to mind, but that doesn't have to do with the building project per se that came along later.

Q. Okay. Well, then let's leave it for now. You were elected in November of 2001. So when did you first start as a working member of the board?

A. Well, basically my first meeting was in December of 2001. So my first full year would be 2002.

Q. Were you a member of the curriculum committee in 2002?

A. Yes.

Q. Who put you on that committee?

A. That would have been Mrs. Casey Brown.

Q. Now, some documents relating to board retreats in 2002 and 2003 have been produced by the school district and the subject of much discussion, so let's talk about those documents. As you sit here today do you recall anything specifically about the board retreats in 2002 and 2003?

A. Specifics? Not really anything in those board retreats, I don't really remember specifics of any of the board retreats I've been at.

Q. As you sit here today can you recall generally what happened at either retreat?

A. Well, it's just sort of a get-together. It's an informal thing where the administrators and board members get together, you talk, you have dinners together. It's just more of a team building thing than anything.

MR. GILLEN: Your Honor, this is a good point for me to get together the binders that this witness is going to need as I go forward. Might I suggest we take a break now?

THE COURT: Yes. It's a little early, but we'll let you do that. Why don't we take our twenty-minute break, and we'll return and pick up the direct examination. We'll be in recess until that point.

(Recess taken at 10:08 a.m. Testimony resumed at 10:31 a.m.)