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Feedback Compilation

Feedback for September 2006

Selected reader letters and TalkOrigins responses from September 2006.

PreviousArchiveYear Index
Entry 1

Feedback Letter

From
Eric D. Braden
Comment
I've been wasting an awful lot of the state goverment's payroll obsessing over this site for the last week. It's impressive how much information you've collected here.

I've been interested in evolution for as long as I can remember (my middle name is Darwin, literaly...like really literally), but there have always been a ton of holes in my knowledge of it (and therefore my ability to defend it growing up in a small town where people tend to think in quite conservative terms). This site is amazing. I still feel like I've only seen a fraction of what you have to offer.

So many of my own internal questions (transitional fossils, so-called irreducible complexity, the credibility of creation science's "evidence," the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, etc.) have been answered here. That answering has revealed what kind of gaps a little information can fill. My opinions on evolution have gone from what was essentially a "belief" to a true conviction based on fact. It's also given me ways to express to myself and others a lot of the ideas that I have trouble explaining to others, particularly the "goal-less" nature of evolution and it's analogy to a bush/tree instead of a line.

Growing up in the South with an intelligent, church-going family, I do have a lot of compassion for Christians, and I really appreciate seeing comments by the likes of Chris (?) Ho-Stuart and others expressing the idea that evolution and Christianity are in no way mutually exclusive and the fact that many Christians (even in the South) do not believe in Biblical literalism. In addition to trying to explain to fundamentalists the lack of a need to give up their core beliefs, I believe it gives atheistic proponents of evolution more reason to avoid judging and pigeon-holing any Christians that come along.

Anyway, enough with all that, thanks again.

Entry 2

Feedback Letter

From
michelle geric
Comment
Dear Sir,

I'm sure someone has already pointed out to you the mistake here - I'm presuming in the extract below that you're referring to James Hutton, if so I'm sure you're aware that he was not a catastrophist but perhaps, along with George Toulmin, among the first of the British uniformitarians.

Michelle Geric

"Catastrophism The name coined by William Whewell in 1832 to describe a view in geology championed by Hutton that the rate and mechanisms of past geological change are dramatically different than those of today."

Response

From
John Wilkins
Response
Ah, yes, I keep meaning to fix that... of course I meant William Buckland. Now fixed.
Entry 3

Feedback Letter

From
Shaun Wason
Comment
I just wanted to give all you guys lots and lots of kudos for creating and maintaining this excellent resource. And the fact that you put up with incredible amounts of "The world isn't flat you morons" and "Dr Dino is right and you're scared of him you heathens" without going postal earns you all the more kudos. Keep up the good work.

Response

From
John Wilkins
Response
Thank you. We're all expecting complimentary sainthoods.
Entry 4

Feedback Letter

From
Frank
Comment
Just a brief note of appreciation. I've come across a lot of Creationist arguments and your site is the best for refuting them. Recently I've used your articles on the Cambrian explosion and the Bombardier Beetle to argue with creationists. Kudos for your good work! (You don't need to publish this.)

Response

From
John Wilkins
Response
Sure we do...
Entry 5

Feedback Letter

From
Mickael
Comment
I'd like to tell you I appreciate the way religion is respected in this archive. I could not feel any arrogance in your words, so I think your work deserves much respect. Thank you.
Entry 6

Feedback Letter

From
Dan Harrison
Comment
Has anyone investigated the option that a hydrogen cloud struck the Earth 15K years ago? There are sufficient oral legends of a flood to merit investigation.If the atmospheric pressure dropped the temp diff and rain of suborbital ice pellets would explain the bizarre arctic and sudden ocean level changes better than the current theories.The ancient Jewish tradition of the appearance of rainbows and the earthwide temperate flora would be explained also by higher baro pressure catastrophically dropping by a solar H2 flare generating massive ice storms. Dan Harrison 10Sept2006

Response

From
Mark Isaak
Author of
Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition
Response
There has been a great deal of research on ancient climate. Ice cores and other evidence give us a pretty good record of temperature and atmospheric composition for the last few hundred thousand years. Extraterrestrial clouds have been seriously considered as one influence on climate (mainly by obscuring sunlight), but there is absolutely no evidence to support that hypothesis. Climate variationis are much more readily explained by known factors such as the precession of earth's axis.

Oral legends of floods do not indicate a global flood. R. S. Ludwin et al., for example, make a good case that many flood traditions from the northwest North American coast arose from a tsunami in January 1700. World flood traditions are diverse and almost certainly reflect experiences with separate, diverse floods. Keep in mind also that oral legends around the world talk of the sky as a solid barrier, which tells us nothing accurate about the actual state of the sky.

Finally, a rain from space would be impossibly hot from the graviational energy alone, not to mention the chemical energy of the hydrogen combining with oxygen. Rainbows form from sunlight through liquid water droplets; in the scenario you propose, all the water would be superheated steam. See the FAQ for more on this and other problems with a global flood.

Entry 7

Feedback Letter

From
Matthew Pocock
Comment
It looks like dark matter has been confirmed, as extremely weekly interacting stuff that pretty much just does gravity.

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/aug/HQ_06297_CHANDRA_Dark_Matter.html

Perhaps this could be added to the entries about cosmological models requiring dark matter being rubbish because dark matter is made up?

Entry 8

Feedback Letter

From
samobra77
Comment
Dr. Matson, is really a brilliant person and it seems like he knows all the little tiny question regarding the age of the earth. How old is Mr. matson! is he older than the universe? because it seems like he is responsible for all the question that needs to be answered. however as smart as brilliant he is Our God who created all things will always be sitting in His throne and won't be bothered for a moron like Dr. matson insisting his twisted unregenerated brain. because one day he (Dr. matson will stand before a holy God to answer for all his folly and mind him, God doesn't owe him,Mr. Matson any explanation as stated in Romans Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: No excuse!!! for Mr. Matson to do more research right at the very heart of HELL perhaps the degrees of flames and heat of the place will give him more accurate readings of the age of that awful place called HELL. I have one advice for Mr Matson its not yet too late!!! God will abundantly pardon for all who will believed in His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. as the Bible said " whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Entry 9

Feedback Letter

From
josh lamb
Comment
I like how you say there is evidence to back your theories up but then you just state what a few individuals insight is about the event how come there are so many examples to refute over and over. and even the ocean has mountains still in it and have not eroded the ocean aint just flat on the bottom it has ridge's and mountains. I dont haft to be a geologist to know this. keep trying to deceive people though just wait till you get to space and try to explain why we are the only ones for millions of miles and why there aint other lives on other planets that a single celled organism didnt evolve into that could handle the environment. God Bless and keep the insane excuses going.
Entry 10

Feedback Letter

Comment
Our Lord Allah the almighty created this earth and others, and other things those we can see and those we can not. Islam is the only religion which is the truth.
Entry 11

Feedback Letter

From
Ray Jennings
Comment
Your site only made me feel the tremendous loneliness you all must feel. I once was at a point in my life in college where I doubted God. I'm so thankful I came around. My question is....why are you so sure?... when you have no more proof than I do (as well as millions of other faithful obedient believers) as with their personal relationship. IM CONFIDENT THAT NO ONE KNOWS MUCH TILL THEY PERSONALLY EXPERIENCE SOMETHING. I pray that one day before judgement...you will come forth. THERE ARE NO ATHIEST IN FOX HOLES! ...no reason to believe but no definite proof! huh sounds like ...may have been.....probably...estimates...the judge will laugh in court I am a prayer warrior and will honestly pray for you. Ray J
Entry 12

Feedback Letter

From
Phillip
Comment
You Are LIERS!!! The Earth didn't even exist 7000yrs. It's only 6000and couple yrs.

If you people read the bible, it would be clear

Bye bye

Response

From
Gary Hurd
Author of
Dino Blood and the Young Earth
Response
As to the age of the Earth issue, I suggest that you read

Dalrymple, G. Brent 1991 The Age of the Earth Stanford University Press

After 15 years, there is little that needs to be updated in his book. There are several articles on the TO website that could relieve your anxiety and/or ignorance. Resources you have overlooked for example include a contribution from Dr. Dalrymple. I might even be said to have added a small voice to the choir, opposing the creationist abuse of reality.

As far as reading the Bible, the TalkOrigins crew are a diverse group with diverse approaches to faith. I personally read the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, regularly (some days I go fishing). I have found during the 50 years that I have been able to read the Bible, that dogmatic clarity has receded while understand has advanced. For example, young Earth postulants assert that the loosely summed "ages" found in Genesis and elsewhere are the age of the Earth and the Universe. Not only is this absurd in light of geology and chemistry, this is discordant with the overwhelming Christian scholarship, let alone that of Jewish biblical scholars. Some suggested readings are;

Blenkinsopp, Joseph 1992 The Pentateuch: An Introduction to the First Five Books of the Bible The Anchor Bible Reference Library New York: ABRL/Doubleday

Cross, Frank Moore 1973 Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic: Essays in the History of the Religion of Israel. Boston: Harvard University Press

Dahood, Mitchell 1965 Psalms I, 1-50: Introduction, Translation and Notes New York: Anchor Bible- Doubleday

Dalley, Stephanie 2000 Myths from Mesopotamia: Creation, The Flood, Gilgamesh, and Others Revised Oxford: Oxford University Press

Friedman, Richard Elliott 1987 Who Wrote the Bible New York:Harper and Row (Paperback Edition)

Jewish Publication Society 2004 The Jewish Study Bible, Tanakh Translation Oxford University Press

and for extra credit, read;

Speiser, E. A. 1962 Genesis: Introduction, Translation and Notes" The Anchor Bible, New York: Doubleday, Inc.

Schmandt-Besserat, Denise 1992 Before Writing Volume I: From counting to cuneiform Austin: University of Texas Press

Generally speaking, there is no more biblical support for a young Earth than scientific. Tomas Aquinas wrote, "In discussing questions of this kind two rules are to be observed, as Augustine teaches. The first is, to hold to the truth of Scripture without wavering. The second is that since Holy Scripture can be explained in a multiplicity of senses, one should adhere to a particular explanation only in such measure as to be ready to abandon it if it be proved with certainty to be false, lest Holy Scripture be exposed to the ridicule of unbelievers, and obstacles be placed to their believing." - Thomas Aquinas, c.a. 1225 - 1274, Summa Theologica (1273).

Aquinas refers to the Christian father, Augustine of Hippo (A.D. 354-430) who advised Christians trying to interpret Scripture in the light of scientific knowledge in his work The Literal Meaning of Genesis (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim). The following translation is by J. H. Taylor in Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41.

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. {Augustine here has refered to 1 Timothy 1.7}

Entry 13

Feedback Letter

From
Stefan Dobratz
Comment
Modern Synthesis is a "paradigm shift" sounds like a statement from someone overly proud of their work and overly impressed by details. What does modern synthesis add to Darwin's theory other than details? Puncuated equilibrium seems to be the primary new thought on evolution. I am not detail oriented, but rather principle and concept oriented.

A very interesting web site.

Thank you.

Stefan Dobratz.

Response

From
John Wilkins
Response
The modern synthesis (which is no longer modern - scientists should be more careful in naming their ideas!) was the joining of the new science of genetics with the ideas of evolution as Darwin proposed it. While I am hesitant myself to call anything a "paradigm shift" (a term that means more in advertising than in philosophy these days) it truly was novel. It meant that several problems with Darwin's own presentation - that of the origin and retention of novelty in inheritance, which on his account would blend after only a few generations) were solved, while at the same time overcoming the objections of the mendelian geneticists who thought that evolution had to be sudden and episodic. The recognition that genes play a role in many traits and many genes play a role in a single trait allowed geneticists to realise that variation could be almost continuous rather than discrete. This is what natural selection needs in order to work - sudden stepwise variation would make novelties either completely unfit or miraculously more fit, in a way that lacked any explanation.

Punctuated equilibrium doesn't mean that changes happen in a single mutation, but only that the rate of "uptake" of more fit genes is very rapid and then settles down to a relatively static equilibrium in the population. But the mutations are still relatively continuous, and it only means that species remain static over most of their existence once the fitter alleles have been spread through the population.

Entry 14

Feedback Letter

From
CDB
Comment
My comment is more philosophical in nature than scientific.

Darwin's concept of natural selection carries unfavorable social ramifications. If evolution is by chance, then what commitment does man have to virtue? (being the only product of natural selection who can percieve virtue) Philosophically, natural selection states there is no good or bad, just chance and survival. How does the scientific community answer this question?

Responses

From
John Wilkins
Response
Given that it's not a scientific question, there is no consensus to be had from the scientific community. As a philosopher, allow me to respond instead.

Evolution is not "by chance" as such, but it is undirected and full of contingency. Adaptations are the result of non-chance operations of natural selection, on the raw material of mutations and events that are not correlated to the needs of the organisms, which is the only sense of "chance" that matters in this context.

Chance in this sense has no relation to questions of good or bad, except in the operational sense of some variation being better or worse for an organism in a specific environmental condition. But even if we grant that all evolution is chance in some broader sense, why should that affect our moral stance?

Back when we thought that good or evil was the whim of a god or gods that couldn't be predicted, we still had moral beliefs and codes. When we thought that good depended on the moral dictates of a god for no other reason than the god so dictated, we still had moral beliefs and codes. And when we think that moral beliefs are independent of the physical state of things, we still have moral beliefs and codes.

The ethicist G. E. Moore named what he called the "Naturalistic Fallacy" back around the turn of the 20th century, in which he noted that it is a mistake of reasoning to think that the Good is a natural property. By extrapolation, the Bad is also not a natural property. If Nature is "red in tooth and claw" as Tennyson said, or is a domain of total cooperation, or something in the middle, our moral codes do not rely on those physical facts.

There is another fallacy to be mentioned here - the Genetic Fallacy. This has nothing to do with genes, but rather is the claim that something is good or bad because of its origins, like drug money being tainted because it was gained through the exploitation of addicts. If we evolved into moral beings because of "chance" or if we were made moral beings by fiat, either way we are moral beings. It doesn't matter, from a moral perspective why we are moral beings, only that we are. Virtue is a fact of our natures. Likewise, that drug money will still support an orphanage, should you come into possession of it by chance.

Finally, there is a third fallacy - the fallacy of adverse consequences. Merely because some adverse outcome derives from a scientific claim doesn't make it false. Einstein's theory of special relativity gave rise to the atomic bomb, but Hiroshima and Nagasaki don't make it false. If natural selection is true, and let me assure you that it is, the use of that principle by some to do horrible things doesn't undercut its truth, though it may undercut the moral standing of those who did horrible things with it, or who justified what they did with it. For example, the acts of the crusaders, killing thousands if not millions of civilians in the name of God and Jesus, don't make Christianity false thereby.

I find it odd that people seem to think that we need to deny truth in order to be moral.

From
Mark Isaak
Response
Besides, conception is by chance, and people arise by conception, so society must be doomed already.
Entry 15

Feedback Letter

From
Julian Lieb,M.D
Comment
1859-2001. May I bring to your attention: Lieb,J."Eicosanoids:the molecules of evolution." Med Hypoth (2001) 56(6) 686-693 Lieb,J."An experiment on infertility illuminates prostaglandins in natural selection." Med Hypoth (2004) 63, 370. Prostaglandins are under productive investigation in the evolution of algae, sponges, coral, plants, flowers, fish, amphibians, insects, reptiles, invertebrates, vertebrates, mammals, primates and man. Max Planck noted that innovations are often simple, and emanate from unexpected and improbable sources. Sincerely, Julian Lieb,M.D

Response

From
Gary Hurd
Author of
Dino Blood Redux
Response
Sure, if you like. I deleted your telephone and fax number as a favor.
Entry 16

Feedback Letter

From
Antonio Manetti
Comment
As a regular reader of the feedback section, I often see antievolution rants from young people, who mention that thay came upon your site in connection with some sort of class assignment. Whenever possible, you reply with your usual forebearance and expertise.

As a parent, I know how manipulative kids can be. With that in mind, it's amusing to speculate that some of these kids are simply conning their elders into doing their homework.

Response

From
John Wilkins
Response
As some of us are teachers, we know that :-)
Entry 17

Feedback Letter

From
Dr. Lars Jonsson
Comment
Dear friends!

When you give Linnaeus's proverb: O Jehova, Quam ampla sunt tua opera! Quam sapienter ea fecisti! Quam plena est terra possessione tua!

There is given the year 1757, which must be wrong – the year should read 1758.

The full reference is: Linnaeus, C. 1758. Systema naturae, ed. 10, Tomus I. Regnum animale. Impensis Direct. Laurentii Salvii.Holmiae.

This work also initiate the starting point of the binominal nomenclature for zoology!!

If you like to know more about Linnaeus feel free to link to this site: http://www.linnaeus.uu.se/online/index-en.html

All the very best, Lars Jonsson Museum of Evolution, Uppsala University

Response

From
John Wilkins
Response
Readers may also be pleased to know that the Gallica project at the Bibliotequé Nationale de France will allow you to download a facsimile copy of the 12th edition. So far I haven't found any facsimiles of the canonical tenth.
Entry 18

Feedback Letter

From
Alex Stevens
Comment
It is because I have nothing to add that I have something to add.

I have fairly recently visited this site, and I have viewed the Index To Creationists Claims sction with great interest. I found that anything that I would say against macroevolution has already been said. I have came to only one conclusion: this is a debate that will not end. Upon reading some of the responses to the claims I could only think "Do they expect THAT to be able to stop me?" So I attempted an the debate within the private walls of my mind taking every side and every argument that either side is capable of making until one side won the argument. Niether did.

Obviously an debate that occured entirely in one's own mentality isn't the most persuasive of arguments, but all I need to do is refer one to the feedback area to prove my point: this debate will never stop, and after looking at it from just about every perspective I can imagine, neither side is going to let it stop.

I am a Creationist, so what? Does this allow me greater access to some facilities than others? Does this make me inherintly idiotic? Does anyone really care? Does even Elohim Himself, if one would pardon the expression, give a damn? I would answer no to these, and since this seems to be a debate without winners, I will defend my beliefs only if directly challenged.

My feedback is that you guys continue to do a good job, this site is really great. I would also like to say this: for all I care now, this is philosophy. What it is NOT, is a tavern brawl; stop the insults, you only make your own side look bad. Auf Wiedersehen.

Entry 19

Feedback Letter

From
jerry
Comment
Thank God for your site, or not as the case may be. It disturbs me greatly that in the 21st Century, Religous fundamentalists of all types are able to argue and deny Evolution. They blatantly lie and twist evidence to support their bizzare views. It scares me that they are brainwashing children and trying to spread their poison of ignorance in order to justify their backward medieval views. Keep up the good work. Gerry, Scotland, UK
Entry 20

Feedback Letter

From
Pat
Comment
You guys ROCK!!!
Entry 21

Feedback Letter

From
James Allen
Comment
Just writing to inform you of a few minor typos in your recent transcript of the Hendren v Campbell opinion - they'll either need correcting or [sic]ing, depending on the original. The numbers below refer to paragraphs in each section of the transcript.

Secton II

1. "factual determination as whether" (as to whether)

Section IV

1. "the Plaintiffs. called ten witnesses" [superfluous period]

Section V

5. "also seams to support a balance view" (seems, balanced) "the earth and a1 life" (all life) 7. "between adjacent kind;" (kinds) [?] 8. "page XIX" (xix) 9. "page XX" (xx) 11. "page XX and XXI" (pages xx and xxi) 12. "various principals and laws" (principles) 14. "algae. one-celled organisms" [period should be comma]

Section VI

2. "the zeal of its adhereants" (adherents) 9. "carefully worded to be lees explicit" than" (less explicit than) 13. "was a mere adjectives" (adjective)

Section VII

3. "were in violation with" (violation of) [?]

Entry 22

Feedback Letter

From
Simeon S.
Comment
Wonderful. It is hilarious for me to read your five misconceptions, mainly because they're at the lips of my rommate. This college is like that, I'm afraid. You have to be pretty confused to try connecting the law of entropy with evolution, but my history professor tried it. Unlucky for him, I was sitting right there...

Response

From
Gary Hurd
Author of
Dino Blood and the Young Earth
Response
You have my sympathy. Can you get your money back?
Entry 23

Feedback Letter

From
elduce
Comment
interesting site. what about the cambrian explosion? thanks

Response

From
John Wilkins
Response
What about it? We know that it occurred over about 20 million years. We know that there are fossils from before that period and molecular evidence that prior animal evolution goes back at least another 70 million years. And there are plenty of pages on this site that give information about it.
Entry 24

Feedback Letter

From
Adrian Maler
Comment
I was completely shocked and confused to see my name in the August 2003 feedback, attached to the following "comment":

"'Signifiance & responsibility' section on this page; Talk.Origins: Deception by Omission"

The page in question is on trueorigin.org -- a site I do not visit. The response was from Mark Isaak:

"I am surprised that someone claiming your critical thinking skills would fail to notice the multiple fallacies of Pascal's Wager. In particular, have you considered the possibility that God might reward honesty above self-serving sycophantic supplication? For an extensive discussion of Pascal's Wager, see this entry in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy."

What? Huh? First, I am not religious, I think Pascal's Wager is without merit, and I used to be a longtime fan of your site. Second, even though this was (apparently) 3 years ago, I am quite certain that I did *not* send the original "comment" and I don't know why my name and email address are attached to it. Third, the response isn't even about the comment! Please correct this, for it is obviously a huge error.

Responses

From
John Wilkins
Response
We had a crash a while back and restored the comments from archives. It may be that you got wrongly connected from another comment. I'll send a note to the techies...
From
Michael Hopkins
Response
The "crash" that John refers to could not have possibly been the problem since the feedback script does not actually post or modify the actual web pages. The script generates a page which is manually saved to the correct location. (Though some HTML cleanup, etc. is done first.) The "crash" was an index file for for a month getting erased somehow and thus a manual recreation of the index was had to be done. Since then Douglas Theobald has put into place improved backup system.

I conducted an investigation of what went wrong. The file was last modified on July 17, 2005 long before the crash. The Way Back Machine verifies that what you object to was on the web on September 21, 2003 or pretty much since the file was created. I then used the feedback system of this website to look at the August 2003 feedback. I searched for a feedback from "Adrian Maler". And the explanation became immediately became obvious: human error.

Feedback responders at this website are provided with three text areas. The first is "The reader's original comment [Changes to this window are not saved.]" The second is the same thing except that it can be edited. I just used it to blockquote your quotes to make it more readable and to link to the feedback. Other uses would be to cut down on over-long comments, remove profanity, etc. The third text area is the response. Here is what Adrian Maler actually submitted:

I'm a first-time commentator and really enjoy your informative website. Thank you for including some comments on the molecular or circadian clock at www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/apr01.html

Recap: humans have an organ called the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN, aka "Circadian Clock") that keeps our bodies on an approx. 24-hour cycle without environmental cues.

I was getting ready to write a comment about that molecular clock (re: "watchmaker" creationist argument) when I saw the page. I have done some work on the circadian clock myself, which involved writing differential equations to simulate that organ's function.

I think it is interesting to keep this organ in mind when considering "watchmaker"-type creationist arguments. It is also a fascinating example of evolution producing "design-like" structures for humans to marvel at. :)

Anyways, thanks for including that bit of info that I can relate to.

The system indicates that after Mark Isaak made his reply that Ed Brayton made a blank reply that was edited out. I also notice that Mark's reply makes a lot more sense as a reply to the first feedback for that month. This appears to be a case of posting of materials to the wrong locations. Mark's reply will be moved and yours will be restored.

Entry 25

Feedback Letter

From
Robert Cailliau
Comment
Congratulations on this site!

What worries me greatly is that creationists simply refuse to accept the rules by which science works:
(a) collect facts,
(b) build a hypothesis that explains the facts,
(c) make a prediction from the hypothesis,
(d) test the prediction against reality: if it fails the hypothesis is wrong, if it passes then the hypothesis becomes supported. But it is not ever proved, no matter how many tests it passes: the first test it fails makes it immediately invalid.
(e) try to explain ever more facts with the hypothesis.
(f) If the predictions of the hypothesis cover more and more facts, and one fails to find a counterexample, then over time the hypothesis becomes a theory.

A theory is an explanation of a large number of facts that is so good that it can be used to develop technologies.

Any system that does not work by these rules is not science, full stop. It is a matter of definition, not a mindset.

Replacing a failed theory with a new one is also subject to a rule: the new one must at least explain everything the old one explained. Newton's theory of gravity is wrong because it does not explain the precession of Mercury, whereas Einstein's does. However, Einstein's theory is only better than Newton's because Einstein's theory also explains all the facts that Newton's theory explains: it covers all the old facts and some more. Newton's theory is still a theory because it is good enough to send men to the Moon accurately. It is not good enough to use the GPS system though, we need Einstein's relativity for that.

It does not matter whether you find relativity or evolution unbelievable, against your religion, revolting, or whatever. The only thing that counts in science is whether or not it explains the facts. There is no other theory than evolution that explains so many facts in biology, and no counterexample has been found. Creationism or intelligent design fulfill the points (a) and (b): sure, creationism is an explanation of everything we see around us. But creationism does not fulfill the other points: making a testable prediction and going on. Therefore, it is a satisfactory explanation, but it just does not fulfill the definition of science.

Because creationism is simple to understand and stops short of requiring any intellectual effort, many people think evolution is equally easy to talk about. Science however is accumulative: we find ever more facts and we go ever deeper into the details. To understand evolution requires not an act of faith, but an effortful study. From the comments I read here it seems Creationists refuse this study also.

Robert.

Entry 26

Feedback Letter

From
perspectives
Comment
This is more comment than feedback, also I image it isn't fully appropriate for this site. None the less, I'd like to share it with you good folks.

ps. I believe your website is top notch and a valuable resource - thanks for all you're doing!


Recently, I had the opportunity to discuss Creationism with a bright young student. She challenged me with remarks about Earth’s true short age; Grand Canyon being evidence of Noah’s Flood; even that coal can be produced in a matter of months under proper pressure and heat. She went on to explain God’s plan included an imminent Armageddon - that is, destroying his own creation ala End Days hype. When I countered with facts debunking these notions she became defensive, saying that to attack someone’s faith was a horrible thing to do.

It caused me to wonder why so many feel compelled to embrace willful ignorance. By that, I mean a willful ignoring of masses of real, verifiable and available evidence simply because it conflicts with one’s own preconceptions and challenges one’s fears. With this in mind, I would like to share the following with those who believe the truth can only be found within a single mind set, or book.

What is science? Real scientists - especially the great ones - started out as kids totally amazed at the world they saw (discovered) around themselves. What’s out there? How it works? Why it works the way it does? What it all means? At its core science is that natural awe and curiosity at god’s creation all grown up.

What is science’s sin? Science established straight-forward rules and guidelines in order to organize our inborn desire to pursue an understanding of the miraculous creation we witness around us. These rules are solid and won’t be bent for those who have convinced themselves they are gifted with superior insights. If those “superior insights” can’t pass the scientifically established hurdles they are not allowed within the arena of science. It is fitting and proper that agenda driven unsupported opinions remain outside this venue of science. There are other realms these beliefs belong to such as politics, philosophy, religion.

The best thing about science’s rules aren’t what they reject but rather all they are open to. Science’s guidelines are organized in such a way that any member of humanity, from any point on our globe, has the opportunity to participate, even to revolutionize long held beliefs. As long as they are thoughtful enough to adhere to the rules while presenting convincing and verifiable arguments.

Too many ignore what’s written in the Holy Book: “God surpasses all human understanding.” Not one of us has either the authority, nor the justification, to tag God with certitude. We should be clear and appreciative that science is one of humanity’s paths toward an inkling of understanding, or truth if you want. Always remembering that other paths such as those provided by the religions that abound are also relevant. Like the solid and void of a picture frame we need them both.

Entry 27

Feedback Letter

From
Shelley Steva
Comment
Thank you for your hard work in trying to educate the public on evolution. I am a middle school science teacher who keeps waiting for a big hastle on the teaching of evolution and natural selection in my school. It hasn't happened yet, but each year I keep holding my breath. Your work is invaluable and every month I eagerly await the next installment. Thanks again!
Entry 28

Feedback Letter

From
Eric D. Braden
Comment
This is probably a little too late, but for some reason, I am browsing the feedback backwards (present → 2005 → 2004...) and I came upon this and wanted to add to it. In August 2003's feedback (about halfway down the page, I don't want to copy/paste too much into this feedback) John Wilkins responded to Daniel Flynn's question about why humans donned clothes.

This is pure speculation, but it seems to me the most intuitive answer is simply protection from the elements. Man wears clothes, man can thrive in cooler climates. This seems to correlate with the fact that most bareskinned cultures (for lack of a better phrase) exist in warmer, more seasonless climes.

This does nothing to address the 'shame' part of the question, but cultural practicality can often lead to cultural stigma (for instance, spreading the notion that smoking is unhealthy has gone hand-in-hand with attaching stigmas of uncleanliness and unattractiveness). I believe (my own assumption, without actual research) this extends to many social stigmas, such as our aversion to excrement, spit/saliva, religious 'food laws' and others.

My 2¢.

Entry 29

Feedback Letter

Comment
Interesting 7 min radio report on Creationism in Turkey:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/realmedia/sunday/s20060702c.ram

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